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	<title>nearby.org.uk blog &#187; terms</title>
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		<title>Between a rock and a hard place&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.nearby.org.uk/blog/2008/12/08/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/</link>
		<comments>http://www.nearby.org.uk/blog/2008/12/08/between-a-rock-and-a-hard-place/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 02:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[API]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Google Maps]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[KML]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[update]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Web Services]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Google Earth API]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Google Maps API]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[stupidity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[terms]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nearby.org.uk/blog/?p=202</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is going to be a long and rambley piece about licences and the updated updated Terms of Service of the Google Maps API &#8211; if either of those don&#8217;t interest you turn away now Not that long ago Google updated the Terms of Service on Google Maps API &#8211; I guess mainly in responce [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is going to be a long and rambley piece about licences and the updated updated Terms of Service of the Google Maps API &#8211; if either of those don&#8217;t interest you turn away now <img src='http://www.nearby.org.uk/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Not that long ago Google <a href="http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2008/11/posted-by-mickey-kataria-product.html">updated</a> the <a href="http://code.google.com/apis/maps/terms.html">Terms of Service</a> on <a href="http://code.google.com/apis/maps/">Google Maps API</a> &#8211; I guess mainly in responce to <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Maps-API/t/d4956d6126bd3b01">issues</a> brought up on the <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Maps-API/">Mail group</a>, and <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2008/11/the_mapping_mess_google_v_os.html">elsewhere</a>. As a result of that edit there where <a href="http://www.edparsons.com/2008/11/who-reads-the-terms-of-service-anyway/#comments">many</a> <a href="http://www.nearby.org.uk/blog/2008/11/13/use-google-maps-api-to-display-data-now-powned/">concerns</a> <a href="http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/17/will-mashups-be-threatened-by-googles-map-api-tos/#more-1521">raised</a> (and <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Maps-API/t/3b0bd5922c7115f0">more</a>)- and a <a href="http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2008/11/update-to-google-maps-api-terms-of.html">further edit</a> was made. (note, only linked to some of the blogs etc &#8211; follow links to read more) This was over a week ago, but due to non online commitments haven&#8217;t really had a time to follow this up. You can read my early reaction <a href="http://blumenthals.com/blog/2008/11/26/google-updates-google-maps-api-to-calm-the-storm-in-great-britain/">here</a>, which has been edited in to Mikes post.</p>
<hr />Below is the <a href="http://code.google.com/apis/maps/terms.html#section_11">main section</a> that is still causing concern, quoted in its entirety:</p>
<blockquote><p><small><strong>11. Licenses from You to Google.</strong></small></p>
<p><small>11.1<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> Content License.</span> Google claims no ownership over Your Content, and You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Your Content. By submitting, posting or displaying Your Content in the Service, you give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute Your Content through the Service and as search results through Google Services. This license is solely for the purpose of enabling Google to operate the Service, to promote the Service (including through public presentations), and to index and serve such content as search results through Google Services. If you are unable or unwilling to provide such a license to Your Content, please see the <a href="http://code.google.com/apis/maps/faq.html#tos_optout">FAQ</a> for information on configuring your Maps API Implementation to opt out.</small></p>
<p><small>11.2 <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Brand Features License.</span> You grant to Google a nontransferable, nonexclusive license during the Term to use Your Brand Features to advertise that you are using the Service.</small></p>
<p><small>11.3 <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Authority to Grant Licenses.</span> You confirm and warrant to Google that you have all the rights, power and authority necessary to grant the above licenses.</small></p></blockquote>
<p>To be honest still unsure how I feel about this section, and finding it very hard to vocalise (well to put to pixels) the concerns. I certain its not compatible with a number of situations where the Maps would otherwise be ideal, but that I guess is real life &#8211; just need to move on an find <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/">something </a>that is more suitable. But its still gauling to have invested so much in Google Maps API to have it all disappear in puff of legal smoke, I guess its now going to be<em>&#8220;Once Burnt, Twice Shy&#8221; </em>as they say.</p>
<p><span id="more-202"></span></p>
<hr />I&#8217;ll try to put it into more practical terms. On <a href="http://www.geograph.org.uk/">Geograph</a> (which was a fairly big user of the API) contributors submit photos by releasing them under a <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/">Creative Commons licence</a>. Its important to note that Geograph (the site or company running it) doesn&#8217;t get any additional rights or licence to the photos beyond the CC licence. Now according to the above section, the API developer (in this case me) must be able to grant Google a licence to the displayed data, but the licence is not compatible (no attribution clause) with the CC licence. Ok then, the last sentance of 11.1 hints at a get out &#8211; however jumping to the FAQ, which says:</p>
<blockquote><p><small><strong>How can I opt out of including my content in Google search results?</strong><br />
To remove your page or site from search results, follow the instructions provided in our webmaster help center. If we enable indexing of any content that is a part of your Maps API implementation, we will provide updated instructions to opt out of including that content in search results.</small></p></blockquote>
<p>This seems to equate &#8216;indexing&#8217; with &#8216;licence&#8217;.</p>
<p>Now I kinda understand why Google are doing this, they want to legalise the crawling they are doing &#8211; so they have a get out that the data has been licensed to them specifically.</p>
<p>So does that mean if we don&#8217;t agree to the licence &#8211; the data wont be crawled and indexed? But we do want content to be indexed &#8211; previously we&#8217;ve never agreed by allowing content to be crawled we giving a licence to that data.</p>
<p>&#8230; so with Geograph at least &#8211; I cant grant the licence &#8211; but I cant use the elusive &#8216;opt out&#8217; (boils down to robots.txt I guess), as I do want the content to be indexed. <strong>So can Geograph use the Google Maps API or not?</strong> I still can&#8217;t see how it can &#8211; if it did it would be contravening the TOS of the API (cant confirm as per 11.3), and/or violating the Creative Commons licence (see section 4.a. of the <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/legalcode">legal code</a>,<em> &#8220;You may not sublicense the Work.&#8221;</em> which is the most succinct expression of the issue).</p>
<p>Another silly issue in all of this, users displaying Geograph content on Google Maps website itself (eg via KML files) are basically agreeing to the same terms (by way of <a href="http://www.google.com/intl/en_ALL/help/terms_maps.html">here</a> and <a href="http://www.google.com/accounts/TOS">here</a> [see section 11]). So the same issue displaying such content is not actually abiding by the terms and licence. And by providing links to Google Maps we inciting users to do this :p &#8211; but that is a step away from doing it wholesale on the website itself?</p>
<hr />On a plus side have re-enabled the mashups on this site*, which I think are compatible with this updated updated terms, I still don&#8217;t have a licence to the data &#8211; but I dont allow it to be indexed either &#8211; and if/when Google start indexing mashups there will be mechanism to explicitly say no.</p>
<p>* sorry this has taken so long, truly sorry for the inconvenience. In retrospect maybe was a bit hasty &#8211; but couldnt allow the licence to data been entrusted with the be undermined.</p>
<hr />Slightly tangential, I just love the irony that as be section 11 of the Terms, Google wants a perpetual licence to your data, but in section 7 it only gives you a very limited licence to the mapping data &#8211; because of course it isn&#8217;t theirs. (not saying I disagree with section 7, just pointing out the disparity)</p>
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		<slash:comments>2</slash:comments>
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		<title>Use Google Maps API to display data? Your data has been POWNED</title>
		<link>http://www.nearby.org.uk/blog/2008/11/13/use-google-maps-api-to-display-data-now-powned/</link>
		<comments>http://www.nearby.org.uk/blog/2008/11/13/use-google-maps-api-to-display-data-now-powned/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[API]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Google Maps]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Google Earth API]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Google Maps API]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[terms]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nearby.org.uk/blog/?p=196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you use Google Maps API to display data on our website, then beware; new Terms of Service have been introduced. And it doesn&#8217;t look good&#8230; Basically its laid out pretty clearly (see section 11.1) that if you use the API to display *your* data, then you grant Google a irrevocable licence to do as [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you use Google Maps API to display data on our website, then beware; new <a href="http://code.google.com/apis/maps/terms.html">Terms of Service</a> have been <a href="http://www.edparsons.com/2008/11/who-reads-the-terms-of-service-anyway/">introduced</a>. And it doesn&#8217;t look good&#8230;</p>
<p>Basically its laid out pretty clearly (see section 11.1) that if you use the API to display *your* data, then you grant Google a irrevocable licence to do as it sees fit with your data. </p>
<p>Sure it says &#8220;<em>You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Your Content.</em> &#8221; &#8211; first, to soften the blow, but then goes on to say &#8220;<em>[to] publicly perform, publicly display and distribute Your Content&#8230; </em>&#8221; (click the above link to see the full text) &#8211; I dont see how that is any different to saying they can do what they like with your data. </p>
<p>It gets worse if you have &#8220;business listings data&#8221;, as 11.1(b) says: &#8220;<em>For example, if you create a store locator application, Google may use the business listings information from the store locator to improve the Google Services such as Google Maps and local search.</em>&#8221;<br />
- give your data away free to Google why don&#8217;t you!  </p>
<p>then as 11.3 says &#8220;<span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em>Authority to Grant Licenses</em></span><em>. You confirm and warrant to Google that you have all the rights, power and authority necessary to grant the above licenses.</em>&#8221; &#8211; in many cases I* don&#8217;t think I can!</p>
<p>So does that mean if I can&#8217;t grant the licence demanded, I can&#8217;t use the Maps API? It seems so to me, so its with a heavy heart have had to disable some API based maps and Mashups. At least in the short term. </p>
<p>* as the one agreeing to the Maps API Terms Of Service. </p>
<p><span id="more-196"></span></p>
<p>How its true the <a href="http://www.google.com/privacy_terms.html">global Google TOS</a> document has basically said since I can remember, but this new terms spell it out what the deal is. Before I argued it was not in the *spirit* to of Maps API to allow such broad licencing &#8211; now it seems it is. </p>
<p>So it&#8217;s almost tempting to say its of little practical difference &#8211; nothing has really changed &#8211; other than now it would be blatantly flouting the terms, something not really prepared to do. </p>
<p>Of course we have known for a long time, the &#8216;information grab&#8217; is on &#8211; its a commodity; after all its Google business to organise the worlds data &#8211; and to do that it must gather data. This is generally done by the GoogleBot spidering your site &#8211; a process you maintain some control over, and even by omission, agree to. </p>
<p>The API does indeed offer a choice too &#8211; you can choose to not use it, but if you do, then your data can be gathered &#8211; legally too (well almost). Its Googles&#8217; API, its their right to dictate how you use it &#8211; after all they <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">are</span> where offering it for free with little return. Now they have a return.  </p>
<p>&#8230; Now I am really torn, I was a big supporter of the API &#8211; can I do that any more? </p>
<p>Now that all been said &#8211; I would be more than happy to be proved wrong &#8211; its not really as gloomy as it seems. </p>
<p>Time will tell who has shot who in the foot&#8230;. (and no doubt this will be greatly discussed)</p>
<p>Update: <a href="http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2008/11/posted-by-mickey-kataria-product.html">Offical announcement</a></p>
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		<slash:comments>18</slash:comments>
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